Beacon Flash: Navigating The Data Revolution – A Conversation with Richard Walker

 

Richard Walker

Why are we filling out forms in the year 2023, let alone the year 2000? And the answer is there’s a lot of reasons we’re still filling out forms. But it comes back to this very basic question of data gathering. So yes, I think we’re changing. But I think we’re changing very, very slowly. And I’ve had the design for how to eliminate forms for over a decade. And some of its going to happen more faster with AI, these tools that are coming out now it’s going to make that more and more possible. But I think at the underlying premise, you can’t eliminate the need to collect the data. So the question becomes, how do you collect the data?

Speaker 2

Welcome to the beacon flash to go to podcast for enterprise wealth management professionals looking to stay ahead of the curve, hosted by Chip Kispert, Managing Director of Beacon strategies, this podcast explores the future of the industry, and the most pressing issues facing today’s top leaders. Join us each week as we sit down with industry experts to discuss the opportunities and strategies for success.

Chip Kipsert

I am so thrilled to have Richard Walker, from Quik Forms with me today. Welcome, Richard.

Richard Walker

Hey, thanks for having me, Chip. It’s so good to be here.

Chip Kipsert

You know what, I love chatting with you, I find you to be a very innovative thinker. And additionally, what you’re doing is kind of the what’s the word what, how do I want to put it, you don’t get the credit for the great work that you’re doing. Because literally you’re like, the pipes underneath a lawn that are that are that will pop up, it’ll let you be able to have sprinklers on your yard. And then you go back down. And I really think that as we’re looking at the last three or four years, and then as we look forward, you guys are really, you know, those pipes that keep everything moving. So I’m super excited to talk to you. You’re you’re fun to talk to as well, you always have an interesting perspective. So, again, welcome.

Richard Walker

Thank you, I appreciate the analogy to the sprinkler system. But moreover, I appreciate the credit that you’re relating to because we’re doing the work that nobody else wants to do, which is why we have no competition and what we’re doing.

Chip Kipsert

Well, you know, one of the things that I always love to hear and, you know, tell us really about what makes quick special right? Now, you know, there’s certain things you’re doing. But what what are a couple things that make you guys special?

Richard Walker

You know, I was having actually a full epiphany last night about this chip and 20, we’re on our 22nd year and 20 years, it finally occurred to me all the things that we’re doing relate to one special thing, we are making it easier to process forms. This all started because I hated filling out forms. And I thought that’s what everybody wanted, they wanted to stop filling out forms. But honestly, if you think about it, what they wanted to do was eliminate the errors and the troubles and the challenges of reading the forms that were filled out. And so that’s what we’re doing, we’re improving how people can actually get the data off the documents and process the information that those documents collect, so that the firms can perform transactions. That’s what I think we’re doing best. The second thing I’ll say, I’ll tell you that makes us really special is that we’ve taken the effort of defining the common information across the entire library of forms. Did you know our library just went over 39,000 forms? Wow, it’s astounding to me. I launched the company with 300 forms thinking that’ll be good. Let’s go. And one of the things that people talk a lot about is why do I have to keep re entering my data over and over again, you’ve been to the doctor, right? They know you but they want you to do the stupid clipboard and paper again,

Chip Kipsert

every time it can be the dentist it can be the doctor drives me insane.

Richard Walker

Totally. So really what made us different as we said, hey, your first name never changes. Why don’t we define first name to be the same first name on any form that you have to put your information on to. And further than that, let’s define more and more fields. So today, I don’t have an exact count, we think we’re close to a million fields that are defined across that universe of forms. Which means that when we opened up a Schwab form of fidelity form a Persian form American funds form, the data is always working the same way that’s really the magic real quick, is to be able to put data on the document in the same way every time and get that data off in a meaningful manner every single time.

Chip Kipsert

You know, it’s it was interesting, because I was going to ask you how many data fields and you snuck that one in so I didn’t have to ask question, but that’s a lot of information to manage, and to keep up to date. So kudos to you guys. question, are we coming to a new age of data gathering? Right? And as data becomes more More important, right? And data becomes an asset. You talk about forms, I will say when you use the term forms, the hair on the back of my neck goes up, and I don’t have much you can see that. But, you know, I look at the concept of the form. And I’m like, if we’re electronic, are we just doing data gathering? Where are we going in this new age of data gathering?

Richard Walker

Yeah, I think the question chip is, why are we filling out forms in the year 2023, let alone the year 2000? And the answer is, there’s a lot of reasons we’re still filling out forms. But it comes back to this very basic question of data gathering. So yes, I think we’re changing but I think we’re changing very, very slowly. And I’ve had the design for how to eliminate forms for over a decade. And some of it’s going to happen more faster with AI, these tools that are coming out now, it’s going to make that more and more possible. But I think at the underlying premise, you can’t eliminate the need to collect the data. So the question becomes, how do you collect the data? For years and years and years, we’ve seen online form tools, I mean, forums.com, I wish I purchased that domain way back when Wufu, I think is another one, there’s tons of those tools out there. Think about Salesforce, with lead capture, all of these things are collecting data online and eliminating the need for a form. But forms continue to live for a very simple premise, which is, it’s inexpensive. And it’s easy to produce. Anybody with a word processor, a PowerPoint, and Excel can create a form, print it and hand it to a customer say here, give me your data. So I think the question I have to start thinking about is, what are the better ways to collect data? And then you are confronted with some of the challenges? Do you remember back in the 2000s, mid 2000s, people were talking about the universal health care, information sharing, right, you should able to go to any doctor, and they’ll have your data. Why don’t they today, because nobody wants to share that data. We have HIPAA, we have compliance, we have regulation that says you cannot share the data. So these are massive roadblocks to why you still fill out forms, because you are not in a position as a consumer to say I authorized my data to go to this party. And for these pieces to go to this other party, you don’t have that kind of control. And frankly, that’s something I’ve been interested in since we started this company, because while we’re a forms company, we’re actually a data company, hence our definition, right. And I’ve always thought, you know, in in the year 2000 2010, it was maybe about search in 2010, to 2020, it was about privacy, we gave up all our privacy to be on social media. And and I feel like let’s get that privacy back, give you the consumer control over your data. And at the exact same time make it easy for you to share that data. I think of tools like LastPass bit Warden, these these password managers, as one of those such tools of how you share information, in a way, right, you share maybe a credit card with a website, but it’s only filled out at that moment of entry from a tool like that. And I think we need to expand on that. But let’s go back to the underlying question, how are people collecting data and why and that is what’s going to drive the methodologies that and the technologies they choose for changing the way we collect and therefore share data.

Chip Kipsert

So let me take that a step further. What does what does the next generation, what were new agents of data gathering look like?

Richard Walker

I think it’s more that either people have individual profile data that they can then share easily with the system. And or the systems that are collecting that data today become a little bit more open ended. So you know, I remember back in the 90s, you could buy demographic data about a community and know exactly who was living in houses and what kind of purchases they’re making and what kind of products they wanted. Really, really scary data. And this is largely before the web. Now look at today, right? I mean, we saw with Cambridge analytics, all this information was coming out to control maybe even manipulate people’s perception of things, and force them into buying behaviors or actual different types of behaviors. And so I kind of look at this problem and say, how is that data made available? From a form standpoint? How could we make it available from a form standpoint, what is going to have to happen in this world for that data to be shareable, and therefore, then accessible to the various systems? And I still come back to this really simple problem. You might build a website that collects data, and I might build a website that collects data. And we probably didn’t even agree on how to label first name, right. So how do I share my first name with your first name system? How do we do all that translation? And I’m encouraged by tools like Zapier where they have built integrations across all these different systems, but I will tell you, I don’t think people are thinking about how do I create a universal translation of data for the purpose of forms and therefore data collection? That that is what we are thinking of Got that is what the quick field definition is. It defines first name and middle name and last name by type of person or role that they’re playing. So if you and I both agreed to build our websites or web capture, or our apps or whatever, using the same definition, then we could share that data. That would be the magic.

Chip Kipsert

So I think that’s lovely. I think it’s a little bit of Utopia thrown in there. You know, but when I also want to look at that, do we have different levels of data? Right? So mine might be first name, last name? Where do I live? Some basic demographic information that’s out there, right. And then there’s level two that has additional security layers or whatever, your PII data? I mean, it just, it’s an interesting discussion to me, because, you know, more and more, we’re living in an age of, of data, right. And that’s the expectation is that it’s easy. And, you know, you go look at a at a better man, you go look at a lot of these kind of what I’ll call the online tools, right, the robos. You can open an account with them in three minutes. Right? Yeah, you go try to open an account at a broker dealer. How long does that take? Right?

Richard Walker

Yeah

Chip Kipsert

it’s longer,

Richard Walker

you know, the stepping stone? I’d like to see.

Chip Kipsert

Yeah, right. You know, you’re you’re narrowing that. Yeah. But there are other pieces of that puzzle, too.

Richard Walker

I think so. And the stepping stone I’d like to see is where consumer provides private information like social security number. And that number is not visible, except to the system or party that needs it. I mean, think about today, you fill out a form that goes to the agent, or the financial professional or the broker, whoever that person is, it then goes back to maybe a branch office, maybe then it gets sent to a home office, then it’s sent to the operations team who does data entry or scanning. And then that document lives with that visible information the whole time in some electronic format. Nobody needed to see that data. Honestly, nobody did some system needed to say, is this a valid social? And does it? Yeah, so why are we making all this data visible? Why can’t we just collect it on entry, and mask it and tell the system that needs it? unmask it, that’s what I would like to see as a First Data stepping stone.

Speaker 2

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Chip Kipsert

I think we, you know, we, we’ve we’re kind of unwinding the problems, right? He smooth this all out? What are the benefits of a modern data gathering? And what what are the benefits for the investor? For the advisor? And for, you know, wealth firm home offices, right, that are doing the support? What do you see as the benefits for them?

Richard Walker

Well, I think number one, the compliance with security becomes far better. And it gives trust back to the person sharing that information so that it’s used better. Second, I think it’s highly more efficient, because you are being able to streamline the process, and therefore perhaps do transactions or reject transactions faster. I think that there’s a key frustration that investors experience from time to time, their adviser says, Hey, let’s get into the market, let’s invest or something. They give them the money, they fill out a form. Two weeks go by before that money gets invested the market change to like, why didn’t you put in the money on Monday when I gave it to you? Well, it had to sit on somebody’s desk, they had to review it had to go through approvals. Why do we have that kind of friction. And it’s not just paper, that’s the problem. It’s how we collect and move that data. It’s the systems that don’t integrate that as part of that problem. So I think that the core benefits are again, making it easier to process forms means that you’ve streamlined your process, you’ve eliminated errors, you’ve eliminated frustrations, you’ve made a better customer experience for everybody involved. And we know historically that the companies that drive for a better customer experience are actually the ones that drive growth in their revenue and their business.

Chip Kipsert

You have a cool stats on that, that you guys have put together. I think that’d be a really cool infographic you know, and you know me I’m in infographics, but I Just look at, you know, hey, you make it easier to do business. Your business grows. Right, right. That’s like common sense, right? But I always love to see statistics. So

Richard Walker

let me let me share a statistic with you. I mean, Microsoft has their own McKinsey has their own, but let me share ours with you. We looked at the industry growth, we were looking at an average of rolling through your average. So because sometimes years are good or bad, right? And we looked at the overall industry, and we saw over the last, what is it 17 years, the industry grew at 2.3%. And then we looked at the customers that use Quick alone, and they grew by 7%. Real and what’s interesting is if you take out the quick customers from the industry and just talk about non current customers, they only grow at 1.5%. So I’m not trying to take credit for their growth, by no means, but I think the companies that have focused on excellent customer experience and drove their growth are attracted to a better forms process.

Chip Kipsert

Well, and I think that it’s broader than that, Richard, though, it’s your part of the process in a process of both? How do they open business, how they maintain their business? Right? And, and that, and then you you also hook on to key systems, that then can be, you know, enable faster account opening, can potentially enable faster money movement, though, you know, traditionally our industry has been lacking and how fast they can move money, which just blows my mind, at least within the independence and that arena. But as we look at that, that’s a big, that’s a big deal. Right? And kind of leads me into my next question. You know, so you have that data. People are able to grow faster, you’re hooked into the systems with process, technology, and ultimately, people what downstream opportunities does that open up? Right? So you got the data, you’re feeling good about things? Now what?

Richard Walker

Well, I think you’ve got an incredible competitive advantage over most people, we’re not getting to that level. I mean, I look at what our customers are doing. And I would argue that maybe only 1% are actually capturing the data electronically, even though we’re letting them fill it out electronically. They’re not getting into the downstream system electronically. And a lot of times, what happens is it goes into an esign process where everything gets flattened, and the only living data element is the signature and the sort of certificate behind it. So then you’re still stuck with how do I get this data? So chip, if I can expound on something, we’re launching a product this fall. It’s called form extract. And it’s going to enable customers to submit a document and get the dot data electronically, in a context rich format. So it’s going to be this is account holder number one’s name and address and date of birth, different than beneficiary number two’s name and date of birth, and get it with incredible accuracy, 99.9%, accuracy, speed and scale. So not trying to pitch the product, but I think this is where we’re heading. When we talk about things like AI, and where we’re going to help customers solve problems. So a lot of people focus on how do I get the new account opening process streamlined? Because there’s, there’s great benefits to that. Yeah, like I said, less frustration, less errors, etc. But inevitably, so many companies still handle the exceptions on paper. And what do they do? So we’re gonna streamline that, too, we’re gonna make it even faster now, to process that data with accuracy, and then ensure that investors are getting the right product at the right time. And their expectations are actually met.

Chip Kipsert

But I think you bring up a good point. And it was interesting, we did some work couple years ago. And we’re essentially taking a CRM platform and going through the account, open data gathering account opening process, you’re working with DocuSign, right? So you get the data in there, you get the form filled out, push it out to DocuSign for the client, client find something that they don’t like, right, or that doesn’t, isn’t right. They push it back. And just start over again. Yeah. All over again, right? It’s not collaborative. Right, but you make that change and automatically updates. No, no, you gotta go start that process, which is crazy to me. Absolutely. And I think you know, the whole, you know, and and now, you know, we use DocuSign as well, but I think that the whole e signature concept is going to evolve. Because, I mean, if we go to Amazon, if we go to any of those, we simply click right. We’re able to do a transaction. The whole DocuSign thing just kind of
seems

Richard Walker

you know what I haven’t figured out yet. I don’t know why no signature company is just taking A video screenshot of me signing the document would be more valuable than my face in real time with my voice saying, I’m signing a document.

Chip Kipsert

Hey, we’re back to privacy, though.

Richard Walker

Well, sure. But if I authorize that we do it with online notary, don’t we? You’re verifying identity, etc.

Chip Kipsert

And again, I think this is I think, that areas right for for transformation, as well. So, you know, we’ve had some great conversation and love, I love that your new product that you’re coming out, what’s an AMA that again, form extract, warm extract, you know, over the years, we’ve seen last few years, we’ve seen some, some firms independently going and trying, you know, doing this with, you know, some some different technologies, but I love how you’re, you’re normalizing it. Right? You’re, you’re getting involved with it as a data gathering company. I think that’s great. So let me ask you this question. What are some firms out there that you currently really like in the industry, and that you see is innovative and kind of moving this process a lot other than yours, of course,

Richard Walker

moving the process in terms of account opening?

Chip Kipsert

or moving the, you know, really kind of the data management aspect of the of the business, right. So, to me, that’s data management, everything. And that’s got maintenance. That’s, that’s adding layers of data as you go through. But I’m really curious about some firms, and they don’t necessarily have to be only about data management. But what are some firms within our space that you really like right now?

Richard Walker

So do you know Robert Kirk, I really like his new product, I think his company is intergenic. And maybe you can correct me I forget the concept of what he’s doing to take data and normalize the concept of data across demographics, so that you can say I live in this zip code. And he can find that information and predict your income level, your asset level, other tall, like risk tolerance levels, etc, with some various factors. And then help you fill out say, the client intake process with your advisor, which prefilled some some pre made information like oh, you’re, you’re most likely making 150,000 a year if you live here. And then all you have to do is tweak it and say, no, it’s actually 155. Or it’s 165, or it’s 128, whatever the number is, you’re no, you’re changing the way in which people provide data, because you’re giving a guess it’s exactly what we want. When we go to the doctor next time, we want them to say, here’s all your data, is it still correct, not fill out the stupid form again, right. So really like what he’s doing with AI, machine learning, aggregate data, and trying to build a model that improves how we might predict information about people so that they can then just tweak it and edit it, it’s so much easier to edit than it is to provide brand new, right. So that’s one that I’m really excited about and interested in what he’s doing.

Chip Kipsert

Okay. Any others out there that you really like?

Richard Walker

Yeah, so look, I’m a little bit enamored with AI right now. And I was talking to Charlie Clark at FP alpha. And I think what they’re doing is they’re reading complex documents, like estates and trusts, to gather information to put into the system so that you don’t have to be a lawyer to read it and understand it. I heard of another insurance company doing something similar, where when they acquire one of the advisory firms and bring on new advisors to their firm, they’re scanning the legacy documents to read, what were the rap fees, what did we promise these clients? So I think it’s really interesting to think about how they’re gathering information from documents using machine learning and AI to read it, so that you can interpret it, then use natural language processing models, to ask questions and understand it, and pull this really important and robust data out of really ugly and old documents, so that you can serve your clients better. So I really like how we’re seeing that transform the financial industry. And I think we’re going to see more and more of that over time, where your tax returns and other information. You don’t have to sit there and try to interpret it, you run it through an AI and it comes back and says, here’s what’s important. And here are some things to look at that may be important.

Chip Kipsert

Well, good options there. I like to I like to be brought up. You know, we’ve had conversations with all of them. So it’s, it’s a lot. It’s a lot of fun to hear, kind of send those validated. Let’s put it that way. All right. I always like to give our folks that are joining us on on the beacon flash podcast, a final word, or as we call the flash word. So rich, you got 60 seconds to share your thinking on an aspect of the business. You know, and maybe we’re looking at trends, concerns, outliers, you tell us, you know, give us your 62nd thoughts.

Richard Walker

You know, I’m going to talk a little bit more about artificial intelligence and especially as it affects customer experience in a unique way. In January this year, I said to every person in my company we have Two very specific goals with AI. Number one, I want every person on my team to start experimenting and playing with different tools that have AI, or maybe their pure AI like chat GPT, where they may be able to find a service product or solution that makes their job better, easier, faster. I don’t care if people work 40 hours a week, I care that they have better results, and they are more efficient with their time. And what’s remarkable is it took months, right people were like, Ah, maybe, and they have to find time. But they did find time. And people on my team are getting better and better at what they’re doing using some of these tools, some more than others, of course. But I’ll give you a case in point, our forums team found an AI that took a process they’ve been begging me for years to improve upon the in terms of change the technology, rebuild it, etc. And we said no, it’s too complex, too much time, blah, blah, blah. And they found an AI that would actually perform the human work for them. And they took a process that they hated to do fully automated with AI now. And our net cost is three bucks an hour to perform that work. Yeah, I totally amazing. My second edict just was how do we infuse AI products or technologies into our own products. So obviously, we have a new one coming out. And we’re looking at a whole bunch of other things to change how we manage forms, how we produce forms, how we deliver forms, and I think the AI world is going to help a lot of things. So I’ll argue this. People are not going to be replaced by AI, people are going to be replaced by people who use AI better. It’s just like when the word processor and excel came out, you had those skills, you got better paying jobs, and you moved up faster than people who didn’t. AI is just like that. I don’t think of the robots in Terminator, you know, crashing through my door. Fantasy is fun. But I think it’s going to be I learned a new skill, leveraging another skill. And we’re going to bring lower skilled people up into higher skilled jobs where they can make more money, maybe even work remote. And it takes that mindset, how can I find tools that will improve what I do make me better, faster, easier. And take that mindset and adopt it. That’s what I hope people can do.

Chip Kipsert

A great set of thoughts. Rich, thanks for joining us on the beacon flash podcast. We’d love having you.

Richard Walker

My pleasure. Thank you so much. This has been fun.

Chip Kipsert

I can’t wait to have you on in 2024 and see what progress you guys have made.

Richard Walker

Let’s go for it.

Chip Kipsert

All right. Have a good day.

Richard Walker

You too. Thank you.

Speaker 2

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